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Media


Correct reporting of Fitzroy records, as they pertain to the Brisbane Lions

1999

 

"Mardi gras bonus for Swans".
Letter to the Editor of the 'Sunday Age' (not published)


We are writing in relation to the article by Richard Hinds in the Sunday Age (14/11) "Mardi gras bonus for Swans". While we accept that the undertone of the article was very much tongue in cheek, we still found it an affront to Victorian supporters of the Brisbane Lions. In late 1996 the club operations of the Fitzroy Lions and the Brisbane Bears merged to form a NEW club called the Brisbane Lions, a fact that The Age newspapers have consistently refused to acknowledge throughout the 1999 football season. This has been constantly demonstrated through the reporting of the Bears history in match reports that date back to 1987 and not the Brisbane Lions which commence in 1997. It would be nice to think that Richard Hinds and The Age could correctly report in the same way as most other Victorian media outlets.

Richard Hinds' constant referral to the "BearummmLions" in his article is another example of his flawed reasoning on this topic. Continued references to the "merger" in The Age's reports ring hollow when reporters such as Hinds continue to make inaccurate comments like "BearummmLions". It's also an insult to all Fitzroy people who have chosen to follow the Brisbane Lions. One wonders how Richard Hinds would have coped if Melbourne and Hawthorn had merged. No doubt using The Age's current policy, Melbourne records would have been used, while Hawthorn's would have been conveniently forgotten just as Fitzroy's have been and no doubt Richard Hinds would now be referring to them as the "Dawks".

We are not taking a stance on the actions of the AFL in relation to the priority selection by the Lions of players from the Queensland leagues nor the increased salary cap allowance over 2 years, but one does have to question whether the actions of Collingwood in relation to O'Bree prompted the salary cap concession and if so, the Victorian based clubs should be looking at Collingwood as the villains, not the Brisbane Lions. Collingwood's offer to O'Bree appears to have again inflated player payments far beyond what a club would normally be expected to pay for a player of O'Bree's years and football experience. The money was clearly a major incentive for O'Bree to come back to Victoria, given that not a fortnight before he had assured Brisbane he wanted to stay.

A policy such as the one that helps to promote and develop the talent and skills of young players in the rugby predominant states will surely benefit our national competition in the long term.
We implore the media to remember that the Brisbane Lions are for many Fitzroy supporters, the AFL continuance of the team they held so dear and that the Brisbane Lions are not just a Queensland based club but very much a Victorian team too.

Letter to the Editor of the Sunday Age (not published)


We are writing in response to the article "Out of (South) Africa" by Greg Baum (28/11). The article about new recruit Damian Cupido was interesting except for the fundamental inaccurate error that occurred in the first sentence of the article. Damian Cupido is not the prize recruit of the Bears. He is in fact the prize recruit of the Brisbane Lions.

In 1996 the football operations of the Brisbane Bears and Fitzroy Lions merged to form the Brisbane Lions, a new team. During the entire 1999 season The Age newspapers and website "Footy99" consistently reported incorrect match history of the Brisbane Lions and by doing so The Age has continually refused to acknowledge the merger of the two teams and the establishment of the new team. The official AFL records of the Brisbane Lions commence 1997, the Bears and Fitzroy AFL records cease at the end of 1996.
Greg Baum’s article is yet another insult that the Victorian supporters of the Brisbane Lions have had to endure. For many Fitzroy supporters, the Brisbane Lions are the AFL continuation club they held so dear. Why can’t The Age report the correct information? Or is the reporting on inaccurate facts something The Age tolerates from its reporters? From the 1999 performance, it appears so.

We ask that for the 2000 AFL season The Age can follow the official records and report the correct, factual information relating to the Brisbane Lions.

Letter to Melbourne Media 1999


When is The Age going to start reporting the records of the Brisbane Lions correctly? Week after week, The Age continually reports the Brisbane Lions' records as beginning in 1987 with the Brisbane Bears. This is inaccurate, misleading and unfair to all Fitzroy supporters who are now Victorian based members of the Brisbane Lions.

The AFL's and the Brisbane Lions' official line is that the Brisbane Lions is a new club formed by the merger of the club operations of Fitzroy and the Brisbane Bears. This is confirmed by the Deed of Arrangement, a legal document signed by both Fitzroy and the Brisbane Bears.
Please be consistent. Continued references to the "merger" in your articles ring hollow when your reporters also continually refer to Lions records back to 1987. This conveniently ignores the other merger partner Fitzroy whose records stretch back to 1883!

If the merger did occur as your newspaper continually says, then include Fitzroy's records along with the Bears records, or begin Brisbane Lions' records in 1997. If the merger did not occur, please stop referring to the "merger" and keep reporting as you are doing now.

One wonders how The Age football writers would have coped if Melbourne and Hawthorn had merged. No doubt using The Age's current policy, Melbourne's records would have been used for the new entity, while Hawthorn's would have been conveniently forgotten just as Fitzroy's have been.
Please fix it!
2001
 

21st May 2001


Dear Mr Peek,

We are writing on behalf of the Victorian Lions Supporters Group (VLSG) to seek clarification from the AFL on the status of recording the history of the Brisbane Lions and the AFL’s stance on the Fitzroy and Brisbane Bears merger.

We are aware that from 1997 through to the end of the 1999 season the AFL records showed that the Brisbane Lions was a new club and that its records commenced from the start of the 1997 season, as shown in the AFL publication AFL 1997, AFL 1998 and AFL 1999.

In AFL 2000 it was stated that that a decision was made by the AFL in December 1999 for the records of the Brisbane Lions to commence from 1987, which is when the Brisbane Bears were admitted into the AFL. The publication provided an explanation of a player who had played for both the Bears and the Brisbane Lions had only played for one club, where as a player who played for Fitzroy and the Brisbane Lions played for two clubs.

An issue of great concern to the VLSG is that for three seasons the general football public was lead to believe that the Brisbane Lions was a new club. But at the start of the fourth and now fifth season after the merger, the material contained in your otherwise excellent publication, is implying that essentially the merger between Fitzroy and the Brisbane Bears never occurred and that the Brisbane Bears continued, albeit under a different name and different colours. In effect, this relegates the Brisbane Bears/Brisbane Lions case to be similar to the Footscray/Western Bulldogs or North Melbourne/Kangaroos and even the AFL itself in 1990, which we do not agree with.

We are also a little perplexed at the inconsistency of the AFL reporting of the Brisbane Lions records in season 2001. The publication AFL 2001 states that the Brisbane Lions have played Adelaide 16 times and yet the AFL Official website statistics state that the two clubs have only played 7 times.

We feel that we have the right to ask the questions set out below and seek a satisfactory explanation from the AFL, as it was the body who encouraged the 1996 merger "for strategic reasons" and who for three seasons, led supporters of Fitzroy (such as ourselves) and the general football public to believe that the Brisbane Lions was a new club. We feel that if the AFL wishes to promote the cause of the Brisbane Lions club amongst disgruntled and disaffected Fitzroy supporters in Victoria, then it should take steps to report the history of the Brisbane Lions accurately and fairly to reflect the spirit of the merger.

Fitzroy no longer exists in the AFL as a separate entity, but neither do the Brisbane Bears. The inconsistency of the AFL in this matter has also led to the various media outlets reporting the Brisbane Bears/Brisbane Lions records as one and the same and it is our view that this has a negative view on the efforts of the Brisbane Lions to gain extra members from the ranks of former Fitzroy supporters.
It is our Group’s view that the Brisbane Lions is a new club, formed in November 1996 and that all records of the Brisbane Lions should date from that point. If Chris Johnson has played for two clubs, (Fitzroy and the Brisbane Lions), then so too has Marcus Ashcroft (Brisbane Bears and Brisbane Lions.) We ask that the AFL adopt the same policy and if they cannot do so, to provide us with a logical, rational explanation as to why.

In closing we are asking the AFL if they would be able to explain:
1. Why it was felt necessary to implement a change in how the history of the Brisbane Lions is reported;
2. The reason or justification behind the subsequent decision in 1999;
3. What is the AFL’s position on the merger. Is the Brisbane Lions a new club or simply the Brisbane Bears with a name change?; and
4. Why is there inconsistency between official AFL statistics being published.

We look forward to your reply.

 

 

Shortly after the VLSG received a reply from Tony Peek, the General Manager of the AFL

Reply from the AFL - 18 June, 2001


Mr. J. Joseph President,
Victorian Lions Supporters Group,
PO Box 2590 MDC,
FITZROY VIC 3065


Dear Mr. Joseph,

We acknowledge receipt of your letter of 21 May, 2001 and wish to advise the following.

The question of the statistical and historical records of the Fitzroy Football Club, the Brisbane Bears and Brisbane Lions has been the subject of considerable discussion during their last two or three years between our Football Operations department, our Historian and Statistician and the Brisbane Lions.
Our fundamental objective was to come up with a method of recording the information which was logical and after considerable discussion with the Brisbane Lions, we concluded the following:

1 . For players who played for Fitzroy or the Brisbane Bears, their records were ruled off as at October 31, 1996.

2. For players who played for the Brisbane Bears/Brisbane Lions, for example, Marcus Ashcroft, their playing records were combined based on the principle of continuous service. This approach has been strongly supported by various senior media commentators.

3. Players who played for Fitzroy and the Brisbane Bears/Brisbane Lions should not have their playing records combined.

4. Using Alastair Lynch as an example and there are others including Chris Johnson and Martin Pyke who played for Fitzroy against the Brisbane Bears, we did not believe it was logical to have those games for Fitzroy against the Brisbane Bears counted as part of the combined total of games for the Brisbane Lions.

5. Given that the Brisbane Lions' position has been that the playing records of players who represented the Brisbane Bears and Brisbane Lions should be continuous, we also felt it was logical that the match records of the club including head to head against other clubs should also be continuous.

6. By designating the number of games players such as Alastair Lynch and Martin Pyke have played for Fitzroy, we believe we are appropriately recognising their Fitzroy history and heritage. Again, using Martin Pyke as an example, he played 36 games for Fitzroy including some for Fitzroy against the Brisbane Bears. He also played at Melbourne and with the Kangaroos before being drafted by the Brisbane Lions last year.
We did not believe it was logical for Pyke being regarded as having played 37 games for the Brisbane Lions after he played his first game for the Lions this year.

In addition, our statistics department will continue to record the history of the Fitzroy Football Club and it will be continued to be presented in our official annual statistical history which is provided to the media and sold at various book stores.

Our general view has been to do everything possible to preserve the history of Fitzroy while Brisbane has gone to great lengths to preserve the Lions identity, colors and theme song.


Yours sincerely,


TONY PEEK
General Manager. Corporate Affairs & Communications

Then followed an article in the Courier Mail where Brisbane Lions Chairman Graeme Downie has also raised the issue. The article clearly contradicted Item No. 5 of Tony Peek's letter, that the Brisbane Lions position has been that the playing records of players who represented the Brisbane Bears and Brisbane Lions should be continuous. The Lions regard themselves as a new club, where the playing records of players who represented both Fitzroy and Brisbane Bears should be continous, IF they played for the Brisbane Lions. The article is reproduced below.

Lions' boss urges new stats stance

By Darren Cartwright, The Courier-Mail

Friday, July 06, 2001

BRISBANE president Graeme Downie wants the AFL to take the confusion out of the club's statistical records by calling the club the Lions on scoreboards.

Downie said yesterday the AFL's policy of melding the Bears' history with the Lions' and ignoring Fitzroy's past was alienating its Victorian supporters.

Beside statistical records, he wants only those who have coached Brisbane since the merger with Fitzroy at the end of the 1996 season to be listed in the AFL media guide.

"Our history should reflect both clubs and not just the Bears and the Brisbane Lions because it gets up the noses of everyone, especially our Victorian supporters,'' Downie said.

"What we would prefer is to have the records to reflect what's happened since the merger. We would also like to be called just the Lions on the scoreboard as well.'' Confusion arose recently when Brisbane spearhead Alastair Lynch booted eight goals against Melbourne.

The Lions called it a post-merger match record. AFL statistics reflect Brad Hardie as kicking the most majors for Brisbane with nine against Carlton at Optus Oval in 1989.

"That's the problem. We should have both clubs records as our history and not just the Bears,'' Downie said.

"Or just the post-merger history. It's confusing.'' Lions communications manager Peter Blucher has made several representations to the league for uniformity but has failed to convince the AFL to change its opinion.

For a few seasons after the merger the AFL listed Brisbane's statistical history from only 1997 onwards. But problems arose when players such as Marcus Ashcroft and Shaun Hart were listed as having played for two clubs, Brisbane Bears and Brisbane Lions, and their career games, state games and other achievements were split in two.

That was addressed at the start of 2000 season when player records were reinstated in the media guide. Then this season club stats were backdated to 1987, the year the Bears were formed.

'Any player who played for the Bears and Fitzroy and continued with the Brisbane Lions should have their player records recorded as one,'' Downie said.

'But the club should only be seen as having evolved in 1997.''

Brisbane's midfield understudy Ben Robbins will play his 50th career match against St Kilda at the Gabba tomorrow night. Robbins was recalled to replace suspended vice-captain Chris Scott, who will miss the next three games.

 

This page was last updated on February 16th 2002